I Love Pink Fluffy Rabbits on a Thursday aka the LGBT thread

[Dave (white tiger)]

Well said, Dave.  There's something to be said for that.  If I'm manning my battle station of a ship, in a foxhole, standing guard duty on my installation, who do I feel safer next to me?  The cold--blooded murder or the homosexual?  Yeah, easy choice.

the murderer might not necessarily want to kill you per se, but you personally are more likely to show compassion to your enemy, as a serviceman, if they were incapable of continuing to fight you.
There have been countless news stories of trained troops coming to the aid of the enemy after firefights and giving them hospital treatment once they've been neutralised.
The homicidal maniac would no doubt just keep on shooting until they run out of bullets.
If they are taslking about letting petty thieves and tax dodgers in to the service then they, like gay men and women should pose no threat to the armed services.

[Uncle_Max]

Adm. Mullen's take on DADT: http://www.dodlive.mil/index.php/2010/02/chairmans-corner-my-view-on-don%E2%80%99t-ask-don%E2%80%99t-tell/

Interesting mix of comments.  The negative ones are what I'm reading.  Here's an example:

William Elmore: "Having read your pitiful defense for abandoning DADT, I am sickened that you have risen to your high rank and position of influence. If integrity meant a thing to you, you would resign and go stand in a corner until you came to your senses (if ever). As a former commissioned officer (US Army), tolerance is one thing but your fawning pro-homosexual position makes me nauseous."

Here's the worst of the rest of the comments section for those who are short on time.  It sickens me that each of these people has the freedom that they're so eager to deny to others, and that they all have an equal vote at election time.  If you don't have time to read the quotes, the basic consensus is "Gays are lying to themselves, being gay is a choice, and the fall of Rome was primarily because of gay people.  Plus we can't let gays in the military, they will look at my wang.  Also, the Nazis were so terrible because they were gay."  I WISH I was making any of that up, the proof is below:


Mike: "Admiral Mullen, It is well known that homosexuals can cease to be homosexuals at any time they wish to"..."they had to lie to themselves in order to turn gay. In fact, whether in the military or not, the entire life of a gay person is just one big lie. "

Clay: "I know from personal experience that homosexuality is not “who you are”. It is an emotional/social disorder that some folks deal with more effectively that others, but it is in no way innate, like race or gender. To say so is an insult to blacks and women who have fought discrimination on legitimate terms."

William Elmore: "Integrity? It is impossible to be a homosexual and have any integrity in the first instance."..."Rome fell for many reasons. Chief among them, the Captains of the Bacchanal, sickened by the debauchery and LACK OF INTEGRITY of their leadership, simply walked off the job….and Rome was thus sacked, destroyed and its people left but with the memory of a once powerful and flourishing empire.  Do not sell out our military on the alter of political correctness. Please listen to the collective human wisdom of humanity accumulated over thousands of years. God forbid the President and his minions, to include you sir, from leading us down the same sorry path that led to Rome’s demise. I urge you, stay the course or end the madness and resign your post."

Don Hank: "I have a military friend in the UK who knows what it is like to serve with openly homosexuals in the military. His experience is that the homosexuals are promoted ahead of heteros and then they in turn promote those who will go along with their proclivities and serve as playmates. Heteros not only take a back seat in promotions but, more importantly, are harassed.  The military is not supposed to be for sex games, but you are letting political correctness change that perspective.
Now that America has fallen into the moral irrelevance of Rome, there is no longer a major moral high ground in the world, no moral authority and leadership. Our “men in uniform” are no longer defending a clear-cut moral example for the world to follow. Any nation with a smidgen of morality can defeat us in the propaganda arena and deserves to."

Michael Carr: "God made man and woman to procreate the species. Stop and think–God gave us all a free will—I can CHOOSE to sleep with a man or I can CHOOSE to sleep with a woman."..."so it goes with a gay/lesbian–they can CHOOSE to sleep with either sex."

JC: "Your stated bottom line is “integrity.” Sir, integrity is much more than “telling the truth” as you imply. Integrity encompasses your belief system. If you are a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew, then your belief system says that homosexual acts is immoral, wrong and yes, a lie. However, if you are an atheist, like I suspect you must be, then there is no right or wrong and probably the only law you follow are those laws currently on the books. That is, there is no higher law than those laws that are in-force today. If that is what you believe, then you are not a leader but just another legislator trying to impose your personal beliefs on the rest of us."

Jeffrey C. Long: "If you want to know “why they hate us” so much in Muslim countries, why don’t you fellas get yourselves a little education as to how the average Muslim thinks about a nation which has opened its political processes up to sodomites and that constantly is pushing a reprobate and utterly abominable culture in its face almost daily through its ubiquitous media!"..."These folks who are addictively fixated and obsessed with anal and oral sex and all manner of other fetishistic and unnatural practices have NO PLACE amongst our sons and daughters who are truly dedicated to the service of our country! They are–to put it mildly–mentally deranged and are too unstable to work amongst the normal heterosexual populace in matters military."..."Homosexuals are still the major vector sub-population for the AIDS virus. Why would we condone such activity and why would we flood our military hospitals with an inevitable influx of a high-proportion of diseased and unfit personnel who would be nothing more than a financial drain upon us all."..."Why we should turn our backs on hundreds of years of solid moral tradition in these matters is beyond me."..."I’d ask you to read the book The Pink Swastika. And NO it has NOT been debunked, as some here will now no doubt stridently claim, in its fundamental historical depiction of the Nazi regime and how selfish and obsessive HOMOSEXUAL CADRES enforced some of the most heinous and foul deeds (on even their own countrymen) that the world has ever seen."

M P: "The gay lifestyle is morally wrong, and a choice not to be forced on others."..."I am dismayed by those who state telling someone to not tell their sexual orientation is the same as asking someone to cover up being a Jew or black. How insulting! A person’s spiritual belief system and race are not in the same category. "

[_:_Auntie_:_Chauncey_:_]

Fucking hell, Max! :mad :@  >(Note that almost all these comments are from men.... perhaps they're in the closet themselves?!

Here's an article from Autostraddle (Thanks for the article on Taylor Swift, BTW, Mel! It cheered me up enormously*) about some legal aspects of gay marriage that I'd never even considered.
*See Astoundingly Awesome Things


You might not think too highly of Tila or Casey [of whose relationship I only knew when I read an article hidden somewhere in a tabloid metioning the latter's death], but that's besides the point. I was saddened reading it.
http://www.autostraddle.com/marriage-wasnt-real-tila-tequila-casey-johnson-27721/

[Uncle_Max]

Fucking hell, Max! :mad :@  >(Note that almost all these comments are from men.... perhaps they're in the closet themselves?!

haha possibly, but in general men seem to be the most up in arms over this because the military is still predominately male, plus the fact that males tend to have it much more ingrained that only hetero sex is okay.  I'm not really sure why it is, and how it missed me, but women tend to be much more open about sex issues.  I know plenty of women who have experimented with members of their own sex, and virtually no men who will admit such a thing (I know some who have, but won't admit it).

[_:_Auntie_:_Chauncey_:_]

haha possibly, but in general men seem to be the most up in arms over this because the military is still predominately male, plus the fact that males tend to have it much more ingrained that only hetero sex is okay.  I'm not really sure why it is, and how it missed me, but women tend to be much more open about sex issues.  I know plenty of women who have experimented with members of their own sex, and virtually no men who will admit such a thing (I know some who have, but won't admit it).

That's a point about the military I'd somehow managed to forget *facepalm*! And I think you might be right about how men seem to be generally less open with their sexuality than women... but then again almost all my uni's LGBT - when I was a part of it - consisted mostly of men, and the men vs. women ration seems to be increasing on the mens' front, from what I've heard since.

[Lisa Charlimorph]

I forgot that wanting equality is being "fawning pro-homosexual".

[Dave (white tiger)]

This comment made me a bit cross  :

Don Hank: "I have a military friend in the UK who knows what it is like to serve with openly homosexuals in the military. His experience is that the homosexuals are promoted ahead of heteros and then they in turn promote those who will go along with their proclivities and serve as playmates. Heteros not only take a back seat in promotions but, more importantly, are harassed.  The military is not supposed to be for sex games, but you are letting political correctness change that perspective".

bullcrap!

There is a young lady where I work who is in a gay relationship, and despite being very good at her job she hasn't had the same rate of promotion as her male heterosexual colleagues. She is still a Petty Officer whilst some of her peers are now Chief Petty Officers and at least one is a Warrant Officer, I know this as fact because I have worked with her and her peers on and off in different departments for a number of years.

[Lisa Charlimorph]

But but but don't you know the gays always get special treatment in everything. It's so hard to be straight in this world!

[Dave (white tiger)]

But but but don't you know the gays always get special treatment in everything. It's so hard to be straight in this world!

true, but every once in awhile there's a small victory for the straights 

[Scuzzy]

If it wasn't for all these damn liberals, enabling the homosexuals to live their lie by trying to treat them as "real people". Bah.

[Scuzzy]

This story is so horrendously stupid it's actually quite funny, in a very very wrong way. I mean, how can you be against a law outlawing hate crimes, especially when you claim that defending a group of people goes against your Christian beliefs?!

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/christians-claim-hate-crimes-law-effort-eradicate-beliefs/

The whole thing stinks of rotten hypocrisy. Yeah, lets go to church, then go out for dinner and round off a wholesome family day by lynching some gays? SOUNDS LIKE FUN HUH?

[Lisa Charlimorph]

I'm against hate crime legislation. But most certainly not for those stupid reasons.

[Scuzzy]

I'm against hate crime legislation. But most certainly not for those stupid reasons.

Out of interest, what are the legislations where you are? I only ask because over here hate crimes are basically anything that's written, said or an act that promotes violence against a group of people. Most people who are found guilty usually get prison sentences and as a result are branded bigots for the rest of their lives.

From the Home Office Website:

A hate crime is any criminal offence that is motivated by hostility or prejudice based upon the victim’s:

    * disability
    * race
    * religion or belief
    * sexual orientation
    * transgender

There are several Acts that cover hate crime offences, including:

    * Public Order Act 1986, Part III Incitement to Racial Hatred
    * Football Offences Act 1991 (as amended)
    * Crime and Disorder Act 1998 (as amended by Anti-terrorism, Crime & Security Act 2001)
    * Criminal Justice Act 2003
    * Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006
    * Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008

Any offences that come under these acts are added on top of the actual offence in question (i.e. if someone attacked someone for being gay in the street, they would get done on GBH and probably something from the Criminal Justice act. Under that act a Judge could sentence someone to up to 30 years in prison.) I'm just interested in seeing what the US says about hate crime that would make someone oppose their legislation.

[Lisa Charlimorph]

I think in the US, federally, hate crime legislation is there to ensure harsher punishment and federal funds in the prosecution of someone who commits a crime or incites violence against a group of people based on race, gender, religion or belief, sexual orientation, and I believe disability.

I oppose their legislation because in the US, it's not uncommon for hate crimes to hurt the very minority groups they're trying to protect (i.e. black people are twice as likely to be tried for hate crimes, including anti-white hate crimes, lesbians have been charged with anti-straight hate crimes for self-defense against rapists). Generally I fall in line with this statement by the Sylvia Rivera Law Project, who put it much, much better than I can. There's another statement on it here.

I also believe that in the US, freedom of speech should be absolute, including speech that is hateful or that could incite violence (because that just removes the blame and agency from the person committing violence). "Hate speech" should be protected by the first amendment because even if we don't like it, even if we believe it's abuse of speech, it's too hard a dividing line to decide what's hate speech and what isn't. There are people out there that advocate for anti-fat and pro-life rhetoric being filed under hate speech. Labeling something hate speech shuts down opinion in our country, does nothing for the oppressed minority groups, and fosters an us vs. them mentality.

Moreover, hate crimes don't prevent violence, and I don't believe in giving our already somewhat-corrupt law enforcement system more punitive power.

[Scuzzy]

I think it's important to have a line between believing what you want and hurting other people/influencing other people into committing acts of violence based on their opinions. If someone doesn't like gay people, well then that's their opinion, and sucks though it is it's actually very hard to change someone's beliefs even if they want to. However, there is a difference between saying "I don't like gay people" and "I think we should all lynch gay people", and that's where it stops being an expression of free speech and becomes a hate crime.

As for the law being twisted so it's used against minority groups, I'm not aware of that going on over here, but I think I'll have to look into that a bit more, maybe do some research. However if that is the case over where you guys are then I can totally see why you wouldn't want such legislation.

And yes, it isn't a deterrent at all, but I've always said that education and promoting critical thinking to young people is the solution to such a problem.